As seen about town..

The states capitol where I live has been getting quite a bit of publicity recently, due to a sign which is now posted beside the annual nativity scene / Christmas tree  at our state's capitol. (click on the photo below to make it bigger)
Here's today's article from a local news group.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/390542_capitoldisplay05.html

Dan Barker, co-president of the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc., talks Monday about the sign his organization helped place near a Christian nativity scene at the Capitol in Olympia , during the holiday season. The sign promotes the observance of the winter solstice and is critical of religious beliefs. (AP)

Atheist billboard in Capitol stirs a storm

Thursday, December 4, 2008
Last updated 12:35 a.m. PT

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

OLYMPIA -- An anti-religion billboard in the Washington state Capitol has started a firestorm on national television.

Fox News' Bill O'Reilly had an eight-minute segment on his show Tuesday night decrying the inclusion of the atheistic billboard along with a holiday tree and a Christian nativity scene.

Conservative TV personality O'Reilly urged viewers to call Gov. Chris Gregoire's office.

Gregoire spokesman Pearse Edwards says the office has been getting about 200 calls an hour, as well as e-mails.

The Capitol has had a holiday tree, provided by the Association of Washington Business, for 19 years. In 2006, it was joined by a menorah sponsored by a Seattle Jewish group.

That prompted a lawmaker from Spokane to stage a protest at the Capitol, demanding the holiday tree be called a "Christmas tree." It also led a local real estate agent to sue the state to allow the nativity display depicting the birth of Jesus.

Gregoire, a Democrat, and Republican Attorney General Rob McKenna put out a joint statement Wednesday noting that the federal case led the state to create an inclusive policy:

"The U.S. Supreme Court has been consistent and clear that, under the Constitution's First Amendment, once government admits one religious display or viewpoint onto public property, it may not discriminate against the content of other displays, including the viewpoints of nonbelievers."

© 1998-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer

So.... what do ya' all think?? On one hand I am glad that freedom of speech prevails, on the other hand I want to shake someone and say "get a life'... With so many serious issues that our world is facing right now, is this particular battle really worth all the attention it is getting??

Let's discuss:

Comments

[Chris]

Interesting, because I was listening to the "Christmas" song "Born Again Pagan" by Chris Hatfield - you can get the mp3 here (scroll down to 2007). And the next song in my little holiday playlist was the brilliant "The Christians and the Pagans" by Dar Williams.

[Visionsister]

I am of the opinion that they should take it all down. Without getting up on a big 'ol soapbox, here are 3 reasons.
1. Religion is (or should be) a personal issue, there's no need for public religious displays.
2. Separation of Church and State is there for a reason.
3. You can't possibly represent every religious view and nobody wins when this kind of thing ends up in court.

I think the best way to honor our diversity is to not open the door to these kind of arguments. I'm sure everyone has better ways to spend their time and energy.

[moiraeknittoo]

My uncle and I got into a discussion a couple of years ago about this. He, a fundamental Christian, was completely flabbergasted when I said I prefer that the government honor that idea of separation of church and state and to let folks celebrate whatever they want in their *private* spaces. "But there's a WAR on Christmas!" he exclaimed. "Next thing you know, you'll be telling me you're pagan or something." To which I said, "This really isn't your night now is it."

I find it sadly amusing that the inclusion of a number of other religions or points of view for this time of the year means that those with a different belief are out to ruin Christmas and "this holy time of the year". Shouldn't every day be holy in one way or another? Shouldn't displays of piety and grace happen in the everyday, ordinary moments?

[Carole]

I saw display them all. Everyone should be included.

[Sarah]

My preference is that government at every level prevent this kind of stupid controversy by just not putting up any holiday displays tied to any belief system. Citizens can do whatever they want with their own private property, but the state should stick to simple lights, snowflakes, etc. if they want to decorate. That said, if there has to be an argument, I think that if we want freedom of speech, we have to be willing to fight for it wherever and whenever, even when it's inconvenient. In fact, it may be MORE important to defend our basic rights in time of crisis, as those are the times they're most likely to be tested. Just my two cents!

[Lorette]

I think this argument is exactly why our Founding Fathers thought that the separation of Church and State was a swell idea. We humans have an apparently limitless ability to be silly. As a member of a Christian religious group, I'd defend my right to practice my religion privately, but that right ends when it interferes with the beliefs or non-beliefs of others.

[Cheryl]

Oh what a can of worms! I actually enjoy seeing different holiday and holy displays. What is so sad is that the creator of the athiest display felt the need to go beyond explaining the celibration and spew hate towards other religions. JUST plain old bad manners!! I guess some people forget that tolerance needs to run in all directions.

[Wool Winder]

What a mess. I don't think there is a solution that will satisfy everyone.

[Vicki]

Just promise not to tell Bill O'Reilly that the Wisconsin-based foundation put that up in their own state Capitol, also.
; )

[Robin]

I don't think the tree in the beginning is a bad idea, even the White House makes a big deal about decorating for Christmas (using that word due to my personal beliefs). If someone is an Atheist they don't believe in a higher power anyway, why are they getting their boxers in a bunch over it????

[Emily]

While "yay freedom," and all that, I don't see why anyone has to be tacky about it. Does the nativity have a sign on it that says "the lake of fire awaits you?" Because that would be special. Why can't people play nice and not suck the happy out of every little thing?

Wether or not they should have had a tree or whatever up in the first place is a separate argument.

[Ceci]

I say live and let live. I have opinions and beliefs and others have theirs - so leave me to mine and I will leave you to yours. I do like to see any and all holiday ornaments displayed.... I like the festive atmosphere.

[string]

winter solstice is a religious rite. So therefore their opinion is moot, I don't see why a holiday that is celebrated by the vast majority should have to be kept private.

[Krista McCurdy]

oh, let everyone put up whatever they want. I vote for putting up lots of garden gnomes.

[Ruth]

I thought freedom of speech included my being able to say / display my beliefs even if you don't agree. If I believe in Christ, God, angels etc. do I not have the right to display this? And does not the government that believes as I do have the right to display said belief ???

[Karen]

I can't discuss this calmly to be honest. I don't understand why people have to mess with absolutely everything. It makes me sick.

[Helen]

When people start acting like five year olds about 'they got one more star than I did' stuff you want to just take it all down and say no one gets anything. Respect. Is God laughing or crying over this?

[Timiae]

I know this is an "old" discussion, but I wanted to get my 2 cents in...

The 1st Amendment's Freedom of Speech was intended for the allowance of the nation's citizens to speak out against the government without penalty; it wasn't intended to give everyone the right to express themselves however they wish, regardless of offensiveness. So, really, these displays aren't covered under Freedom of Speech (despite how people want to interpret the 1st Amendment).

I believe in the separation of church and state as an idea/ideal, but it's really impossible. Religion does play a role in the government, its founding, etc. whether you like it or not. I do think that if you let one, you should let all; I also believe that people look to be offended... really, is a Christmas Tree that offensive? A lot of people want to be offended and will find anything to fulfill that desire.

All that said, some religions/holidays aren't. "Festivus" was invented by a Seinfeld writer's father as a sort of a joke about his wife. Now it's a recognized holiday? There are several I could list here that I would be pressed to call a holiday... these do not belong on displays (or else we can all make up a personal holiday and have it displayed at the capitol).